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There once was a girl
This morning I woke up with headache and, like always when it happens, I'm still having it. So I didn't do anything productive and I vomited words of broken hearted fangirl on SlayAlive about Angel and Spike. Because after the whole Twangel mess is just so hard to still love Angel. Or maybe - to be more precise - it's so hard to love the tale of Angel, the author's choices about him.
After the issue #20 of Angel and Faith I'm disappointed about the state of comics. And I was hopeful!girl for all S9. Even when that whole robo!Buffy/false pregnancy thing happened. (Which requires a lot of faith)
But, really, I can't bare the Angel fanboy routine anymore. I can't bare that there are no consequences in the portrayal of Angel and I can't bare that the dynamic between Spike and him didn't change.
I firmly think that life changes dynamics. You can maybe be born with that alpha-male crap thing (And I hate this definition) but then things happen and relationship get messy and you basically change and grow and shift your point of view. You live in a complex world, not in a safe shell. Instead, in A&F #20, we have S5 Spike and Angel comedy rebound. Like nothing had happened. And it's incredible because, for once, Angel could have view Spike as wiser than him. But no. Dynamics in the comics, apparently, are always the same.
And I read BtVS "The Watcher" issue and I find Buffy so OOC and inconsistent I can't even deal with that. So, yes, I blame it on the headache.

Meanwhile, I'm also reading something beautiful that breaks my heart in tiny little pieces.
Callie_Stephanides, here her AO3 page, is writing one of the best Thunderfrost I've ever read. (And I hope she eventually does the translation so the world can read it) It's a very Loki-centric story and it really goes deep into Loki's psychology and the core of his destructive and hateful behavior. Like in the original myth, Loki is the epithome of the rejected, the unwanted and the stranger. He doesn't share all the perfect Aesir traits and he's much weaker than Thor (or even Sif, for the matter) and he's so different in his needs from his Aesir family. It's really painful to read a story like that because of Loki pain all over the place and, generally, the pain that I think anyone who isn't perfect, always winning and always accepted by others can understand. Loki's tale in the Thor movie is maybe an old tale of internalized racism and hate. (Which is also interesting because, you know, a blockbuster - not so much for the deepest thoughts)
I'm not generally attracted to psycho characters but I can't help to love Loki more. Black little kitty of disfunction. I hope to find more good fanfics about him (and Thor, because I also love Thor). If you know some title or wrote something about the drama Norse bros, let me know.

I would also write more about him. Except that I apparently dream about a Loki fanfic and then forgot everything about the dream. Scumbag brain is scumbag.

Comments

( 32 comments — Leave a comment )
red_satin_doll
Apr. 21st, 2013 09:49 pm (UTC)
I was thinking about the comics today (I have no idea why) and how the "negative growth" or regression of the characters has been a feature for some time. I like norwie's description, that he wants a "new story", not just a retelling of the old one (or unraveling, as I put it - we're right back to square 1 from the tv show for both BtVS and AtS/ATF).

I don't know about AtS, but BtVS, as a coming of age story (and Hero's journey) was all about growth and progression, albeit NOT linear as in tradtional storytelling, but closer to real life - we repeat mistakes, we try another route and still fuck up, but it's what we learn along the way that we have to carry with us to try to inform the future. Progress, not perfection. But if there is not progress whatsoever (in the comics), then what's the point?

What number is "The Watcher" issue? Although OOC Buffy breaks my heart - again.
kikimay
Apr. 21st, 2013 10:20 pm (UTC)

I don't know about AtS, but BtVS, as a coming of age story (and Hero's journey) was all about growth and progression, albeit NOT linear as in tradtional storytelling, but closer to real life - we repeat mistakes, we try another route and still fuck up, but it's what we learn along the way that we have to carry with us to try to inform the future. Progress, not perfection. But if there is not progress whatsoever (in the comics), then what's the point?



I can't agree more on that. If everything changes to remain exactly the same in the end, there's no point on reading the comics. I really want to be positive and everyhing, but these final issues are incredibly dull. I can't find a reason to like them.
The Watcher issue is number 20. Evidently it's an unlucky number.
red_satin_doll
Apr. 22nd, 2013 12:02 am (UTC)
#20 must be the issue stormwreath just reviewed. I noticed there seemed to be a bit of discussion about that issue on his LJ but I didn't really read it. (I started reading the review and it mentioned Xander's anger blah blah and I had a "oh whatever" reaction.)

Btw - is there a history of #20 being "unlucky"?

I can't find a reason to like them.

No one can say you didn't try!

kikimay
Apr. 22nd, 2013 08:26 am (UTC)
Btw - is there a history of #20 being "unlucky"?

Because it's also issue #20 the one with Angel pimpin' Harmony to Spike.
red_satin_doll
Apr. 22nd, 2013 08:58 pm (UTC)
In Btvs comics? I'll pretend I didn't hear that.
kikimay
Apr. 22nd, 2013 09:02 pm (UTC)
And your icon express the feeling perfectly.
red_satin_doll
Apr. 22nd, 2013 09:07 pm (UTC)
I have to laugh to keep from crying.
rahirah
Apr. 23rd, 2013 04:29 am (UTC)
Well, that's that thing. I don't think Joss knows what to do with the characters once they ARE of age.
kikimay
Apr. 23rd, 2013 08:18 am (UTC)
Of age means adults? LOL
red_satin_doll
Apr. 23rd, 2013 04:01 pm (UTC)
EXCELLENT point. Sadly, that's pretty true of our (western, US) culture and media and general, so he isn't exempt from that. The lack of realistic mature women in any but the smallest supporting roles - if they exist at all - is something that's bugged me for years, although I know that's changing as A list actresses like Meryl Streep etc have aged, and I think this is an extension of that. (White) Women cease to exist after the age of 30, for the most part. (Whereas WOC hardly exist at all Different rant. Or not.) The stories of grown-up women just don't interest most (not all!) men. Or boys. In the few interviews I've read, Joss strikes me as an overgrown boy, but he's not the only one in the entertainment industry. So it's not "all his fault" but he's either not examined that blindspot, decided he doesn't care, or that he does care but the "right" (demographic) audiences wouldn't. IDK

When my sweetie and I want to see mature women depicted, we seek out non-US films and tv shows. It helps take the pain away, but doesn't solve the problem. But, I digress.
kikimay
Apr. 23rd, 2013 04:19 pm (UTC)
I also like strong and mature woman. Personally I think that they can be far more interesting than girls because they have experience. (I have the unpopular opinion that Buffy in the seven season is even much more sexy that the first seasons)
I think you could love Boston Legal! It's a series with James Spader and there is this strong, mature woman portrayed by Candice Bergan and she's really amazing. I love her character!
red_satin_doll
Apr. 23rd, 2013 05:14 pm (UTC)
Back when I was in my teens I was already convinced that women generally don't start to become really interesting until they are in their 30's. (and have no idea why, other than I have always been attracted to women older than myself. Or was - it's probably changing now that I'm hitting my 40's and I'm becoming "the older woman. Not that I've had a chance to test that theory.)

I have the unpopular opinion that Buffy in the seven season is even much more sexy that the first seasons

Right there with ya, sister.

I've heard of Boston Legal but I didn't know that Candice Bergen is in it; I used to love her on Murphy Brown back in the day.
kikimay
Apr. 23rd, 2013 05:23 pm (UTC)
I've heard of Boston Legal but I didn't know that Candice Bergen is in it; I used to love her on Murphy Brown back in the day.

And you're going to love her in BL. Her character is simply amazing and while she's a mature woman, she's also interesting, powerful and charming.

I kinda have the same ideas about women. I like girls, of course, but I think it's more interesting a woman who knows what she wants and has experience.
red_satin_doll
May. 3rd, 2013 06:32 pm (UTC)
Her character is simply amazing and while she's a mature woman, she's also interesting, powerful and charming.

I'll check it out, thanks! Right now we're finishing up "Kingdom" with Stephen Fry as a solicitor (attorney) in a small UK town, and the thing that's kept me watching are the ladies: Celia Imrie, Hermione Norris and Phyllida Law (who is also Emma Thompson's mother. Every time she's on the screen I can't take my eyes off of her - and she was in her 70's when the show was filmed I think; she's 81 now, and still utterly gorgeous IMO. Not in a Hollywood way but in a "real" way.)

I like girls, of course, but I think it's more interesting a woman who knows what she wants and has experience.

Funny aside: My partner is 17 yrs my senior and we've been together about 17 years; and when we first got together I assumed that her being older meant that she had confidence and mastery in the areas of relationships and sex; turns out she was just as nervous in her own way as I was. Still human, imagine that! But I do know what you mean about the confidence that age can bring. And hopefully someday I'll have some of that too before I'm too old to appreciate it! ;)

lokifan
Apr. 22nd, 2013 08:23 am (UTC)
Like in the original myth, Loki is the epithome of the rejected, the unwanted and the stranger.

Hmm. Now it's been a few years since I read the myths but I wouldn't have described him as the epitome of unwanted. This is after all Odin's blood-brother.
kikimay
Apr. 22nd, 2013 08:29 am (UTC)
I guess I'm influenced by the comics - there's a beautiful issue in which there's the story about Loki and Baldur and everything from the myth. I guess it's in a way accepted but he's also an object of sarcasm and ridicule - see the previous translation. I also think that he's the necessary evil and maybe he's accepted like that.
lokifan
Apr. 22nd, 2013 09:22 am (UTC)
Hmm. I guess it is partly a matter of translations/how stories are told etc. But I think it's pretty notable that he KILLS BALDUR, and everyone knows it was him, and he SHOWS UP AT THE FEAST. And no one attempts to hurt him until he gets drunk and starts insulting everyone. I mean, people are sarcastic at him - and certainly he's v cruelly mocked when his mouth gets sewn - but I don't think he's treated as *that* much of an outsider.
kikimay
Apr. 22nd, 2013 09:40 am (UTC)
Yeeeeah. He's not exactly a friendly guy ... Even in the movies he goes all psycho and there are no justification for an attempted genocide. He's quite messed up but there's also the fact that he's not your ordinary Norse god and he's not treated in the same way as others. Maybe the combo between these two factors makes me think about rejected god - also Marvel and translation of the myth in which he's always insulted. But, absolutely, you're right.
lokifan
Apr. 22nd, 2013 09:44 am (UTC)
Yeah. And I mean, he's definitely rejected/treated badly in the comics, but I was talking entirely about the myths there. Much as I love amalgamations in fic, myth!Loki and Marvel!Loki just do not sit in the same place in my head!
kikimay
Apr. 22nd, 2013 09:46 am (UTC)
I tend to mix the things, maybe because I discovered the myth with the comics. (I knew nothing about Loki before, just his name) In my head there's a mixture of things. I don't know if that's good.
lokifan
Apr. 22nd, 2013 09:50 am (UTC)
I don't think it's bad :) But because I read the Norse myths in childhood and loved him from then (I mean, I've had this username since I was 12 - over ten years) and only heard of the Marvel version when I saw Thor at the cinema, it's like the opposite of your experience. Probably particularly because I found Eight Days of Luke a few years after the mythology, which is a children's fantasy book by my favourite author and has another, very different, godly iteration of Loki.
kikimay
Apr. 22nd, 2013 09:58 am (UTC)
I read Greek myths when I was little, I understand! :) I'm going to read more about Loki and generally try to understand more the difference between comics and myths - so far I'm mixing them in my head. I've never read Eight Days of Luke - but according to Wikipedia it's interesting. I found Odin and Loki in Neil Gaiman's "American Gods" and they are different from the comics. (For example they are half brothers)
lokifan
Apr. 22nd, 2013 11:07 am (UTC)
Ah, half-brothers? Interesting. In some ways a more accurate reflection of the Odin/Loki relationship in the myths than in either Eight Days or Marvel comics/movies. Although the 'blood brothers' thing in the myths (Loki wants to live in Asgard, but he's only half-Aesir; Odin and he swear an oath of loyalty and mix their blood, so it doesn't matter any more that Loki's half-giant, except of course it does) doesn't change the power difference between them. I was startled to see Odin as father to Thor and Loki and them as brothers when I watched Thor, but in a way what's surprising is how much it doesn't change the dynamic between them compared to what I see in the myths.
kikimay
Apr. 22nd, 2013 12:25 pm (UTC)
I think that American Gods' Odin and Loki are a much more accurate reflection of the myth. Also, it's an interesting and amusing reading.
red_satin_doll
Apr. 22nd, 2013 09:12 pm (UTC)
My best friend sent me a copy of American Gods a couple years ago, and I'd never read Gaiman and it's an amazing book - I think I liked it more than she did, and Gaiman is the author who has influenced her the most. this was before I watched Buffy but I can see a similar thread in the theme of protecting children - or rather, the costs of our failure to protect the innocents. I didn't love it right away, I had to put it down and return to it and then I thought it was amazing. It required a little patience.

One thing I will say though is that the book comes off as being liberal in it's views of women and there are goddesses and such, and there are one or two important female characters but they are most there as helpers and aids to the male hero. Which is part of the Hero's journey (magical helpers and guides) but I wanted the women to be more significant as characters in their own right because literature is filled with female "helpmeets". I'd still recommend it aside from that.
kikimay
Apr. 23rd, 2013 08:17 am (UTC)
It's true, but I liked it. The female characters were pleasant - I especially loved his wife and the goddess who gives him the magic coin. And I liked Shadow's journey into the mythical world of gods. I want to read more of Gaiman.
red_satin_doll
Apr. 23rd, 2013 03:53 pm (UTC)
I actually think it'd be interesting for me to re-read now that I've watched BtVS and know a little bit more about the Hero's Journey (what I know now you could still fit inside a thimble, but it's still a bit more than what I knew when I was reading this.)

I did like the character of the wife - esp how the beginning created an expectation of what sort of person she was that the story subverted as the whole thing unfolded. She turned out to be as much of a Hero as Shadow was, IMO. Her courage was incredibly vivid.
kikimay
Apr. 23rd, 2013 04:21 pm (UTC)
I didn't enjoy much Sam (I remember her name correctly, right?) Because she seems to me too much perfect. (I don't like Mary Sue) but the wife kinda subverted every expectations on her.
red_satin_doll
Apr. 23rd, 2013 05:07 pm (UTC)
**SPOILERS FOR AMERICAN GODS** Who was Sam, the cute gal who turned out to be a lesbian? (I don't know why I think she's cute, in my head she is. It's been at least three years since I read the book, I think.)
kikimay
Apr. 23rd, 2013 05:11 pm (UTC)
Yes! I like that she was lesbian in the end. It first I was afraid that she was the Mary Sue falling in love with the main character! XDDD
red_satin_doll
Apr. 23rd, 2013 05:16 pm (UTC)
I think I remember now - but isn't it sad that the thing I remember most is the fact that she turned out to be lesbian, rather than a character who happens to be lesbian but it's the character herself I remember?
kikimay
Apr. 23rd, 2013 05:24 pm (UTC)
Her character didn't impress me much. Personally I like flawed and complex characters and while she was very charming she didn't have flaws.
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